Explaining Problems with Church (super short version)

This is actually from the letter I sent to our bishop in order to ask him to please finish processing our resignations. Of course, we know that it isn't legally necessary to ask anyone to finish processing our resignation but 

Why use this letter?

Do you have friends or family that are scared to listen to your explanation?
Or maybe once you start giving the details panic sets in?
Below is a very short and simple letter explaining the biggest foundational issues that make it impossible to continue to believe in the church as we've been told.
It is NOT the most shocking problems in church history, that's not the purpose of this letter.
It is also not referenced with links to source material, this is because the moment someone sees a link to anything they can perceive as being "anti" then they shut down.
It is simple and factual.

Abbreviated Explanation of Church Issues

If you would like to hear our case but without any "anti" or pressure, here it is.

To start, my question to you (or any other member that wants to understand why we left):
"If the church was not true, would you want to know the truth or would you rather continue your life believing regardless?"

Naturally the default response is "I already know it's true", yes, I get that, but this is clearly avoiding the question. 

To ask it another way, is it best for a faithful Muslim to know the truth about his faith rather than die faithful to it?  If the answer is "No, I wouldn't want someone that firmly believes (my faith or their own) to doubt" then there may be no reason to continue.  Does the "truth" matter even if it conflicts with what we've been taught each and every day/week at church events?


I, personally, would rather know the truth. Without all the varnish and editing.  The straight up truth. 

There is no sugar-coating Joseph's extramarital behavior.  I'm sorry.  The church won't even talk about Joseph's "wives" anymore.  But these were NOT widows, they were NOT old women, and many of them were already married to faithful brothers in the church.  Yes, this means that they were "married" to more than one man. This is not "anti" or disputed history, it is fact well preserved in the church's own documents. Why do you think that if you search for Joseph Smith in FamilySearch you will no longer even see his wives listed (other than Emma)?  It used to even have the birth dates and marriage dates to these women (which showed their ages as young as 14 years old) but they have removed these details.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, it's simply a very disturbing part of church history.
Either god overlooked all of that (and therefore adultery, polyandry, etc. are acceptable to god) and chose Joseph anyway or Joseph was committing the most serious of sins, some of which would easily have put him in life in prison like Warren Jeffs today.

I know this is really hard for you and you are disbelieving all this and claiming it is lies and "anti" material. It just isn't.  The unemotional and well-reference Wikipedia list of Joseph's wives gives all the references, names, etc. and many/most of it is even corroborated by church sources as well as by LDS historian and author Bushman (see his book "A Rough Stone Rolling").

This is enough to sink the foundation for me but only the tip of the iceberg, sadly.
Worse perhaps than the doubts about Joseph Smith as prophet is that it turns out the First Vision wasn't even canon to the gospel until well into the 20th century.  Did you know that? I sure didn't. Brigham Young himself absolutely didn't believe in the First Vision as it is taught today.  Why aren't we told that?  Before around the time of the Wentworth letter, the term "First Vision" didn't at all refer to Joseph seeing god, it referred to the visit from Moroni (sometimes also said to have been Nephi in Joseph's own writings).  This is confirmed in numerous journals of the faithful saints in that century.  Brigham Young taught, over the pulpit, in conference, for many years and never recanted, that God the Father is actually Adam.  Yes, literally.  It's called the Adam-God doctrine and it is carefully recorded in Brigham Young's own writings (see Journal of Discourses, you might need an actual copy, not an newly "edited" one).  How could a prophet of god believe that Jehovah appeared to Adam in the Garden of Eden while standing next to... Adam?  It makes the head spin.  Jesus and Adam appeared to Joseph in the First Vision?  Or was it just Jesus and a voice?  But the church membership in the 19th century simply never heard of a visit to Joseph by god and Jesus until many years after the church was founded and even then it wasn't widely published.

Who is Joseph Smith really?  Crud, I feel that the church has purged the embarrassing history to such an extent that we are being actively lied to.  These aren't sins of omission anymore.
But the rest of the details I won't even speak of.  I know that the faithful will continue to avoid history as "biased and anti" they will do whatever gymnastics they must to explain that those were "different times" and that they will consider me a sinner, twisted and under the devil's influence.  If that helps them feel satisfied, I'll take the punches.  But you know that isn't the case.

Again, I'm not out to pull folks down, I'm just very, very glad that I know the facts. And I'm grateful every day that I know it. I wouldn't undo that for any reason in the world.

Short Version: Resigning & Removing Name from LDS Church

There is also a full document on the process with frequently asked questions here.

STEP 1: Send an Email (or snail mail)

Collect a couple details:

1. Your full name(s) as they appear on church records.
2. Birthdates
3. Current address (hopefully this matches the church records)
4. Baptism dates (if you have them, though I've seen success without this)
5. Membership record numbers (if you have them, though I've seen success without this)
6. Having your ward and stake is helpful.

Write a letter.  Use this one below if you want (it's the one that we used). Do not equivocate in the language.  State that from this moment forward you are not a member of the church and you understand what that means.

Email the letter to the church records department.msr-confrec@ldschurch.org

Also, I cc'ed this email (the old email address for this stuff)dodgegw@ldschurch.org

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310 
This letter is our formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is effective immediately. We hereby withdraw our consent to being treated as members and we withdraw our consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs and "discipline". As we are no longer members, we want our names permanently and completely removed from the membership rolls of the church. We wish to remove our names as well as the names of our children.
We have given this matter considerable thought. We understand what you consider the "seriousness" and the "consequences" of our actions. We are aware that the church handbook says that our resignation "cancels the effects of baptism and confirmation, withdraws the priesthood held by a male member and revokes temple blessings" We also understand that we will be "readmitted to the church by baptism only after a thorough interview". 
Our resignation should be processed immediately, without any "waiting periods". We are not going to be dissuaded and we are not going to change our minds. 
We expect this matter to be handled promptly, with respect and with full confidentiality. 
After today, the only contact we want from the church is a single letter of confirmation to let us know that we are no longer listed as a members of the church. Our address is [Our Address] (in the [Our Ward] in the [Our Stake]).
Sincerely, 
My Name

Record #: 

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

My SO

Record #: 

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

Child #1

Record #: (I didn't have this for one of the kids)

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

Address:

[our address]

STEP 2: They respond, but it's not yet over...

Next, you will get a pamphlet in the mail and a letter.  The pamphlet tells you what a serious thing you are doing and to change your mind.  

It also says that you have NOT been removed and that they are sending this to local authorities.  Apparently you get this no matter what you put in the first letter.

At this point you have three options:

Option A) You can wait until your bishop contacts you. This may happen quickly or they may sit on it for months and months (or never act on it). You should gauge the relationship you have with your local ward/bishop on this.
Option B) You can email or call the bishop and tell him to please process it, you don't have anything else to discuss, you are within your rights and they can't hold you hostage (without legal repercussions if you wish to add that into it).
Option C) You can skip the bishop/stake pres altogether by making the Step 2 letter.  This involves you taking a picture/copy of your letter from them and reminding them that they are on rocky legal grounds.  Example and instructions are here:http://www.mormonresignation.com/resign_letterreturned.html

Step 3: Confirmation

Assuming you do one of the Step 2 options, you will then get a confirmation letter in the mail (about 1 or 2 months later) with actual confirmation it is done.  Possibly another pamphlet and a statement they are sorry that you were offended (perpetuating the same old myth that members have that the reason most leave is because they were offended, it can't possibly be because the church just isn't true).  Also an invitation that you can still come back.

The Stake President and local leaders will get notification on official church stationery. The MLS (the church's software) will automatically remove you.  

Joseph's Translation

I just noticed that they are starting to purge documents (even ones spoken by the current GA's) that exmormons have quoted.  I don't want to turn this blog into a church facts site or anything I just don't want to lose this one.

This document has been moved once and I don't want it to disappear completely. You can no longer search for "joseph" and "hat" anymore on LDS.org (or at least, it won't return this document).

So I found the article and took screen shots just so we don't lose it forever.

Here is one of the places where a GA explains how Joseph didn't read the plates, he put a stone in his hat and read words with his face buried in it.  This is one of the things that most bummed me out when finally researching church history.  

This talk will be removed eventually.

Apparently they also recently removed the marriage dates from several of Joseph's wives from FamilySearch.org because they didn't like showing the 14 and 16 year ages of them.  Ugh, revisionist history.  In fact, if you find Joseph Smith, it won't show his other "wives" at all, you have to search for them specifically to see them.

Hopefully someone else can grab that data.

FAQs: Resigning & Removing Name from LDS Church Records

Concise Version

If you don't want the FAQs or explanation, jump straight to the concise steps description.  Otherwise, read on.

Removing Name from Church Records

During our last interview with our bishop, he said an interesting quote I think he immediately wanted to take back: "You do realize that we'll follow you forever."  He clearly thought what he was saying was a loving statement but when he heard himself, he realized how scary that sounds. He faltered and looked at my wife and followed it with "...if that will be ok with you?" Her answer was "That won't be a problem."  Ah pure woman genius.

Why Resign?

As stated, once a member always a member, until you resign/remove your name from the church records through the official process. 

What does that mean?  It means that you are on the EQ lists of people to visit each month, you will be talked about in PEC and ward council meetings, the primary and youth programs will be thinking of ways to bring one of your children back to church... yes all of that is true. 

Am I being alarmist?  Of course not, I did those very activities under multiple bishoprics in several wards.  I created monthly printouts of all the names in the ward, I looked at their attendance records, I saw their temple recomment status, I working with the YM/YW leaders to discuss how to involve the children and hopefully pull their parents into activity and the priesthood quorums were given a report of exactly how long it has been since each and every family was visited.

To the chagrin of several of us in the Ward Council, there was also plenty of talk, gossip, whatever. 

Also, please note that if you do not resign and church leaders see you doing anything untoward regarding church rules or saying anything about church history that isn't "faith promoting" they can always take disciplinary measures, with or without your presence. This is not just speculation, I already know several people personally and many, many more online where posting something to Facebook, talking to church friends about the facts of history, etc. has resulted in a invitation to a disciplinary council (also called a "court of love").

I think I already resigned...?

Do NOT trust that any ecclesiastical leader (bishop, elders' quorum president or even the stake president) has "removed" you no matter what they say.  They have not.  Even if home teachers don't know for months, years, I can promise you that unless you sent the letter to Salt Lake (see the instructions below) then your name is almost certainly still on church records.

Why not Resign?

You may have family that you wish to stay for. You may want to still stay in fellowship in some manner or another or perhaps you like monthly visits from church members.  Generally if these things apply to you, you are likely more a NOM (New Order Mormon, see the dictionary of terms) and would like to stay in.

For the rest of us, there just isn't any good reason to hang on to the church and the doubts, judgement and constant reminders that LDS think you are wicked, apostate or fallen.

Will the church honor my resignation?

They absolutely must by law.  There was a landmark case years ago in which a church member tried to resign, the church refused/deferred/delayed but months later that same church excommunicated the member. This person sued, and won, the case.  Since then, all churches have created a manner in which they can remove themselves from the church.  They often do not publicize the steps of course, thus the confusion for general membership on what the real process is. 

Do I need to have a meeting with the bishop or stake president?

No!  You do not.  

No matter what the bishop says.  In fact, the instruction giving from the Stake Presidency on this topic to bishoprics was (intentionally?) vague on this topic so I doubt your bishop even knows the facts.

Do I need to send a letter to the bishop or stake president?

That is one way to have your name removed because they are required to comply by law.  The one issue with that is they will, of course, try to contact you to dissuade you and, I'm speaking from experience here, they will sometimes lose the copy.

I've even had the letter scrutinized in a bishopric before where they said they weren't sure the signature was in place, or some other technicality.

Now I'm making it sound malicious, I can promise you that everyone involved thinks they are doing this with the greatest love and charity.  There is no conspiracy to keep membership numers strong (not at the ward levels anyway).  But this is because they are still entirely convinced the church is truth and they sincerely believe that you are about to condemn yourself to hell. Some even believe this is the unpardonable sin.  It's crazy, but they believe it.

Why does the bishop/stake president/eq president/hp group leader tell me that I need to take these steps, write letters, meet with people and/or call them on the phone?

They are instructed to do that and none of them are given a complete answer on this topic.  Instructions frequently change.

Can I resign via email?

Yes.

Can I resign without talking to anyone?

Yes.

Can I resign directly to Salt Lake?

Yes.

What do I do if I'm in another country?

Use email and/or send a letter to Salt Lake just like below.  Sadly, the delays will be greater.

Do I need to know my membership record numbers?

No though it could help. I've heard from many others that they did not and their names were removed successfully.  The times when it becomes difficult is when your name and address you provide does not match 100% with the current church records.  Maybe you've been inactive for years and moved a few times?  If your name could have a duplicate and your address doesn't match, they may not remove you.

STEP 1: Ok, so what do I do? 

First, collect a couple details:

1. Your full name(s) as they appear on church records.
2. Birthdates
3. Current address (hopefully this matches the church records)
4. Baptism dates (if you have them, though I've seen success without this)
5. Membership record numbers (if you have them, though I've seen success without this)

Second write a letter.  Use this one below if you want (it's the one that we used). Change it if you wish. But do not equivocate in the language.  State that from this moment forward you are not a member of the church, you understand what that means and that you don't expect to meet with any leadership or other church members about the decision and that you want your records removed.

Third email the letter to the church records department.

msr-confrec@ldschurch.org

Also, I cc'ed this email

dodgegw@ldschurch.org

In the past these emails were sent to a specific email address (the person formerly in charge of resignation letters) which is the second email above.

If you mail supports "receipt notifications" use them.  This means that when a person opens an email, you will get notification that it has been opened.  Microsoft Outlook supports this features.  Gmail supports this only if you have a Gov, Education or Business (paid) account with Google.  Regular gmail and Google Apps for Domains mail accounts don't.

Here is our letter (which we modified from ones we've seen online that other people used):

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310 

This letter is our formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is effective immediately. We hereby withdraw our consent to being treated as members and we withdraw our consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs and "discipline". As we are no longer members, we want our names permanently and completely removed from the membership rolls of the church. We wish to remove our names as well as the names of our children.

We have given this matter considerable thought. We understand what you consider the "seriousness" and the "consequences" of our actions. We are aware that the church handbook says that our resignation "cancels the effects of baptism and confirmation, withdraws the priesthood held by a male member and revokes temple blessings" We also understand that we will be "readmitted to the church by baptism only after a thorough interview". 

Our resignation should be processed immediately, without any "waiting periods". We are not going to be dissuaded and we are not going to change our minds. 

We expect this matter to be handled promptly, with respect and with full confidentiality. 

After today, the only contact we want from the church is a single letter of confirmation to let us know that we are no longer listed as a members of the church. Our address is [Our Address] (in the [Our Ward] in the [Our Stake]).


Sincerely, 

My Name

Record #: 

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

My SO

Record #: 

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

Child #1

Record #: (I didn't have this for one of the kids)

Birthday: 

Baptism: 

Address:

[our address]

What do I do if I don't have all that information?

From the experiences of others out there, membership numbers haven't always been required.  Also, I'm not sure on baptism dates.  What is critical though is that there can be no equivocation on who you are so addresses and other details to confirm you are who you say is important.

I got a letter and it doesn't say I've been removed?

Note that in the letter you said you resign effective immediately. Period. You are out of the church and they have no legal rights to contact you as a member.  Still, you'll find that it isn't yet over.

They will send you a final warning response.  We got ours the very same week we sent our resignation email.  In fact, only two days later.

I later found out that a whole group of us got the same letter (different bishop mentioned in the letter) on the same day.

What I don't know is whether or not this was great timing (a monthly thing?) or whether they prepare these weekly.

STEP 2: What will happen next? 

First, you will get a pamphlet in the mail and a letter.  The pamphlet tells you what a serious thing you are doing and to change your mind.  

It also says that you have NOT been removed and that they are sending this to local authorities.  Apparently you get this no matter what you put in the letter.

At this point you have three options:

A) You can wait until your bishop contacts you. This may happen quickly or they may sit on it for months and months (or never act on it). You should gauge the relationship you have with your local ward/bishop on this.

B) You can email or call the bishop and tell him to please process it, you don't have anything else to discuss, you are within your rights and they can't hold you hostage (without legal repercussions if you wish to add that into it).

C) You can skip the bishop/stake pres altogether by making the Step 2 letter.  This involves you taking a picture/copy of your letter from them and reminding them that they are on rocky legal grounds.  Example and instructions are here:
http://www.mormonresignation.com/resign_letterreturned.html

When will it actually be over?

You will then get a confirmation letter in the mail (about 1 or 2 months later) with actual confirmation it is done.  Possibly another pamphlet and a statement they are sorry that you were offended (perpetuating the same old myth that members have that the reason most leave is because they were offended, it can't possibly be because the church just isn't true).  Also an invitation that you can still come back.

The Stake President and local leaders will get notification on official church stationery. The MLS (the church's software) will automatically remove you.  

They will have a prayer circle for you (I'm kidding, not really).

Terminology for Mormons and Exmormons

These are commonly used terms but entirely my definitions.  But they are useful and you'll see these pop up frequently.  Feel free to tell me to add to them (or change the definitions).


Exmormon (exmo, etc.): Someone that has identified herself with LDS church enough to have felt that to stop attending is a separation, a departure from part of herself. Baptised or not, temple endowed or still a youth, once you've been invested in the LDS church enough, leaving can be difficult, emotional and it makes you an ex-mormon.

You may find that much of your conversation (internal dialogue included) still is trying to reconcile yourself with all the time invested in the church.

An ex-mormon is NOT defined as someone angry at the church (she may or may not be, it's irrelevant) or offended or leaving because of "sin".  Those are statements some members generally apply to someone that has left the church but it's just not true.  I remember well (on many occasions) when church leadership told us that most people leave the church "because they are offended" and that they become anti-mormon. As a result, many members have a fear of or un-comfortableness with exmormons.

Note: For the still member folks, this is commonly a source of humor for exmormons... they will jokingly ask "So which reason did you leave the church, because you were offended or sinning?" pointing out the misconceptions about those that leave the faith.


PostMormon:  Someone who no longer is heavily influenced by the church but it is inevitably part of his life.  The post implies that it is in the past, and he has moved on.  While it still may be emotional and painful at times, the need to tell people about this aspect of his life begins to fade.

In some ways, postmormon feels like the ultimate goal because then he is free from the self-doubt, free from looking over his shoulder when things are going "too well" waiting for some kind of trial.

At the same time, there is a loss of that connection with others that once was there.  For some people, this separation is something they just don't want. Think of it this way, after the loss of a close family member, it's healthy to move on, but naturally some are loathe to give up on the memories.

TBM  [Totally Believing Mormon]:  This is the term for people that are still fully invested and, more importantly, still fully believing.  TBM folks are often characterized by their zealousness in defending the faith and are rarely willing to listen to details that aren't "faith promoting". I.e. they don't want to know about any of the church history details.

It's also important to not that a TBM member doesn't believe that she is being close-minded and she will insist that she has read church history, knows the dirty details but also "knows" that most of that is fabrication and out of context.

In reality though, rarely do they even know the details. 

Please note that some faithful members are not like this, they are open-minded, willing to listen, and can hear the facts of history without wincing (too much) but these people are called...

NOM  [New Order Mormon]:  New order mormons are people that realize there are some serious issues with church history, they recognize they do not have all the "answers" and yet they have legitimate reasons for wanting to stay in the church.  For some it is family, for others it is the good that they feel they are doing, for many it is their children or spouse.  For some even it is because he is hoping that the eternal reward is there and he knows no other way to attain it.

There is also a category of NOMs that are hoping to change the church, to help it evolve and become a more diverse place.

It deserves to be recognized that the world for a NOM is complex.  Reconciling a diverging world view (with gay marriage, women's issues, and other social issues) from one that evolves in lock step (the LDS church continues to change/evolve but only as mandated from presidency) is not an easily done.


Nevermo: Yes, never been Mormon. Sometimes used to refer to a spouse or SO that never joined the church.  I.e. "my nevermo husband"


Polyandry: While the church now officially calls it "plural marriage" to distance itself from the uglier word polygamy, in reality, the church during Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's time practiced both polygamy and polyandry.  Polyandry is when a woman has more than one husband.  There are several well-documented cases in which Joseph Smith (and Brigham Young) "married" women that were already married.  This is disturbing to TBM folks, so please be careful with this. A well-documented and unbiased list is here and includes several polyandrous and other difficult to reconcile relationships 


Anti-mormon: There are two definitions of the anti-mormon including the TBM version and the non-TBM version. Strictly speaking anti-mormon means anything that actively promotes the disintegration of mormonism. To the disappointment of NOMs, exmormons and postmormons though, the TBM church labels even historical record that isn't "faith promoting" as being anti-mormon.  A curious example being that on BYU campus, if you try to read the Journal of Discourses written by LDS prophets including Brigham Young, your internet access to that content is blocked.  Why? Well, since the Journal of Discourses is no longer an "official publication" of the church it isn't "faith promoting" right?  Therefore it is anti.  



[list of terms not complete]

LDS Myths About Drinking

Here is some practical advice for any former LDS trying to figure out alcohol.  Seriously, I wish I had a guide like this before I ordered my first drink.

LDS and Alcohol

First, it's worth recognizing the myths that LDS folks are told to scare us away.

Myth 1: For a non-drinker, one drink will get you drunk... and a good chance of being addicted.
Yeah, this one really is taught to LDS and it's so silly. I remember as a youth being taught these stories about boys that went to parties with no intention of drinking, they are then forced to drink once and then they turn into alcoholics. 

Reality 1: you will likely get to feel a pleasant buzz on your first drink. It's a nice feeling. Enjoy it. I assure you you'll be fine. Stop at one drink if you want. It feels good.

Myth 2: Most people are addicted to alcohol.

Reality 2: This simply isn't true. I've had plenty of drinks now with lots of friends and I can assure you this isn't true. Some people are indeed alcoholics, current science shows that the age when you start drinking has a huge factor in this along with some genetic influence.  I.e. if your relatives are predisposed and you start drinking at a young age, be careful.

Keep it social and/or on the weekends and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Myth 3: once you feel the "buzz" you are drunk. 
Reality 3:  No, the buzz precedes being drunk. It's an entirely pleasant feeling.  This is what people call the "social lubricant" from drinking.  Conversation is free, everyone at the table or bar begins to feels a camaraderie  It's really nice.

Warning! While you aren't drunk, that doesn't mean you can legally drive folks. Because drunk people are too dumb to know when they are under the influence, the legal limit has been lowered to a bare minimum. If you feel a good buzz and you need to drive, stop drinking (drink water) and plan on sticking around for a while and talk to your neighbors.

Myth 4: Order of alcohol strength - "hard" alcohol, beer, wine.
Reality 4: Generally speaking, one mixed drink, one glass of wine and one beer all will contain the same amount of alcohol when you take in volume.  Distilled alcohol like vodka, gin, etc. have a much higher content but they only pour an ounce or two into a drink. Wine is next in alcohol strength (about 12%) but a glass is half as much as a beer (which are about 6%) by volume.

Make sense?  

Myth 5: Hard alcohol is scary stuff.
Reality 5: See Reality 4.

Myth 6: Bars inevitably have drunks in them just like the movies.
Reality 6: This just isn't true.  Most bars are filled with people just like you (well mostly like you, maybe not ex-mormon though) out to have a good time with new and old friends. Even people that have too much to drink are just having a good time.  There are some bars (commonly called "dive bars" incidentally) where I've seen people at the bar just to drink like in movies. I've seen that very rarely.

Myth 7: The spirit leaves you at the door.
Reality 7: Lol, we all know this is silliness.  I still want to comment on this though.  Now that I've been out for a while and been drinking with friends on many occasions, I can now see that statements like this by LDS people are really in poor taste and filled with somewhat insufferable hubris. Basically if you believe this that means that you think all your coworkers and non-member friends are wicked and evil when the truth is that they are just inviting you and other friends to partake in a completely normal social setting.

When Mormons find out that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have birthday parties, they think that is the silliest thing ever.  In a very similar spin, when non-Mormons find out that Mormons won't even enter into a place where they serve alcohol for an after work social hour, they think it is almost as silly.

Myth 8:  People drink as "an excuse for social interaction" or because they want to escape. Or drinking is for depressed folks, etc. 
Reality 8:  I've heard this said a thousand times in LDS church and I used to say it myself.  It basically implies that real social interaction is better without alcohol, otherwise you are just trying to avoid people.  This is so far from the truth though.  So far I've found myself and others willing to connect on a much more emotional and meaningful level when we are drinking socially together. We share our fond memories, our hard times, our desires and passions and a hell of a lot of laughter and happiness.

Myth 9:  Joseph Smith and Brigham Young knew drinking was bad.
Reality 9:  Sorry to burst this one but Joseph didn't refuse alcohol... he had his own bar in Nauvoo.  And Brigham Young had his own brewery and they sold their beer in the Beehive store. Oh and while we're at it, wine during Jesus' day did indeed have alcohol in it.  I'm sorry, I'm not trying to crush you but it's a fact. That scene at the wedding when Jesus was said to have made water into wine?  Yeah, nobody would have said that he "saved the best until last" about grape juice.


Quick hits:
Alcohol burns the mouth? Drinking straight distilled alcohol "burns" in a sense as if it was menthol (only way stronger) so that it clears the nose and throat. Get a mixed drink and sip it and you'll be just fine.

Alcohol tastes bad? Some yes and some no, I'll explain this better in the advice post but the important answer is that there is a taste for everyone.

I'll get seduced if I go to a bar? Heehee, no. You might get hit on though. Chalk it up as a compliment.

Can I, should I go to a bar alone? I wouldn't simply because you have no way of having a friend watch out for whether you've had too much to drink and/or pace you. 

What are shots? I'll explain that in the next post.

Is drinking really that fun? LDS teach it as such a rotten experience

Yes, drinking can, honest to goodness, be a lot of fun.  Let's be safe and I'll tell you all about it. Just remember that the church has a lot of reasons to make sure they teach you to stay away from alcohol. It can be a problem if it isn't consumed safely.  For some people, it can become an emotional and physical crutch.  

But that isn't what alcohol is about and there is no reason you should avoid it out of fear.


OK, now on to the advice (in my next post)

Underwear

Here's a strange topic... after we left I had no underwear. 
My first trip to buy some was an embarrassing story, to say the least.


For the non-LDS folks, any good/faithful member goes to the temple and you are required from that day forward to wear the garments they give you (and none other). Temple entrance requirements aren't exclusive (unless you are talking about the secret Second Endowment that general members are not told about), they are pretty basic.

For LDS people to enter the temple 

1. You pay tithing certified by bishop at an annual interview in which you look at your total amount donated and tell the bishop if this is truly 10% of your income. 
2. You are at least 18 years old and have been a member for 1 year.
3. You sit for an interview in which they ask you if you believe in the church, that Joseph Smith was a prophet and the head of the church today is the one and only prophet and that you are not drinking/smoking and if you have had sex outside of marriage you have already confessed it.  

That sums it up. 

Garments

Back to the underwear and the fact that I had none. If you aren't familiar with Mormon garments, they are ugly. Lets just be honest.  Hideously ugly.  Words don't describe so go ahead and look them up.  They used to be fully body things and, in fact, they still sell these "one piece" versions you can buy. It's a common joke for younger folks to suggest that some people used to even bathe in their garments (yes, showers in their clothes) but there are some still alive that actually do. I will not elaborate more than that, I don't want to name folks but trust me, it's true.

Part of it comes from a promise to never take your garment off. Commonly folks would say that there are exceptions like swimming, sports, etc.  Funny thing though is people were apparently too liberal with this because about two years ago the church amended the garment instructions (meant to be read at every temple interview) to specify that many things that are commonly said to be acceptable are really not like never take your shirt completely off (for yard work, etc.) only remove the garment if the required activity simply will not allow it.  

Well, in order to help women comply with this, it got so hardcore that they, I kid you not, have special nursing garments with... erm... holes in them because the garment goes up to the neck. Women need access for their babies right?  No to be insulting to LDS folks (we've been there so we can sympathize) but, damn, those things were so darn unsexy. Yikes.

Trip to the store

We obviously had to buy some new underwear. We knew that most people in our church didn't yet know that we'd left the church.  We didn't want to make it a big deal for others (though in hindsight I see that this was silly) so we kinda avoided anything that would make it obvious to friends, which we surprisingly frequently stumble on.

The first couple days I wore my underwear that I had to purchase years ago when I, well, got the snip.  I only had three pair of those.  Ugh.  Hadta get some more.

So my wife and I were at the store and decided to get some for me (she already had some, thank goodness).  I remembered wearing boxers in high school so I though I'd just walk over and buy some.  But damn! We walked by someone that was a member.  Now what?  I'm not going to wait until she leaves and we aren't coming here to the store and leaving without them. 

So I do a quick look around.  Nobody in sight.

I turn the corner into the section looking for the quick find... shoot, there are whole new categories of underwear in there. Boxer briefs? Long briefs?  WTF?  I don't have to go cheap anymore either, back in high school, money was always an issue.  

I was in a hurry though.  Tighty whitey? Noway. Those boxers are ugly. Flannel?  Yikes, no.  I look for the most expensive pairs and it looks like they are these boxer briefs, silky. I want something sexy so I can actually wear them and not be embarrassed. My ass looks ok, right?  OK, fine I'll try those ones. Shoot, grab them and run! 

Whew! I got out of there. And safely back to the cart. Crud! There isn't anything else in the cart and now I'm going to have to walk around with these things. I thought maybe I'd grab something else and cover it?  I was next to the baby section, can't grab anything there.

Well, we made it out, with the underwear. I was pretty darn ashamed of how inexperienced I was in all that.

It wasn't until later another formerly LDS friends said "Why didn't you just go on Sunday?" Heehee. I never thought of that.

Fallout

After another month+ the stake approved a replacement for me. The bishop wanted me to talk to the Stake President to see if that would stave off the inevitable that he expected.  I said that would be fine and I showed up in his office. Again, I'm not trying to ruin anyone else's happiness and I had no "anti" agenda.  In my mind, it just isn't true and no matter how much they try to focus on the "good" that the church does, I didn't sign up for a spiritual club, I thought the church was true and it just isn't.  Fact.  And when I couple that with the fact that the church is against the very human rights issues that I care about, it became an adversary for love and harmony in the name of a doctrine that simply isn't true.

I didn't even bother explaining to the Stake President my side.  No debate.  I simply said that my wife and I are happy, we see a bright future, you don't need to worry about us and he seemed to agree and we ended the meeting.  I'm not sure he even suspected the full details.

Later that day, we showed up for my official release.  I was conducting the services still as it was my month in the bishopric.  I gave a little testimony in my usual style encouraging peace, harmony, acceptance and love.  Mostly I said how grateful I am for all of the wonderful friends and I pleaded with them not to abandon me or my family.  The members of the congregation assumed that my release was because it was just too much work for me, and that was fine with me. I got some kind words and accepting handshakes and it was done.  I didn't return for another Sunday.

Rebecca needed to leave it all behind with a fresh start, to say to herself she finally let it all go. So she hopped a plane and went on a trip for a few days.  I had the kids during that weekend and I needed my own purge still. I carefully bundled up all our church stuff, I cleaned out both of our underwear drawers of the garments and other stuff and I just threw it all away. It felt good.  Far better than I thought.  It was my mental clean break.  

I saved one pair, sealed, in a plastic bag along with the set of temple clothes I have. I did this only so that if there is ever a day when my kids want to understand why and how deep the church goes, I can show them. Or if they are ever tempted to date a Mormon boy/girl I can give them a far better demonstration than the emotional half-speak of missionaries.  All prospective members should know from day 1 what they are signing up for, and the temple ceremonies aren't exempt from that.

Anyway, I felt relieved during all of this. I knew many of our friends would try to help us back in, I wasn't worried about any of that. And there just wasn't any doubts here. I think the hardest piece was reconciling myself with the fact that I just didn't know what the future held.  The church is incredibly good at prescribing all of that. Sadly, it doesn't matter how detailed and confident you are about it, none of this is reality. Believing isn't enough to make something untrue into true.

But there is a freedom and peace in the uncertainty too.  I no longer have the supreme confidence that I know what the future holds, but I'm free to explore.  The world has sincerely become a more bright and vibrant place, I mean that honestly.

That day when I collected our old things, it was a sunny summer weekend.  The windows were open and the fresh air continued to lazily wash out the stale air in the house.  I wrapped everything in bags, dropped them outside and did a nice vaccum and then I laid down on it, watched the clouds roll by while the sun shined through the window on me.  I was happy.  

When my wife returned from her trip, she was renewed, and fully ready to move on.


For sure, we had several conversations with friends in the weeks following.  I was surprised how many either didn't fully believe but still had fervent desires to stay or that just didn't want to know either way.  But we felt no need to convince anyone.  I haven't turned into a missionary in the opposite direction.  We had some funny encounters too.  One friend in passing at the store said "Boy you really shook things up."  Well, true enough.

The Exit Interview

While it took a couple months for me to actually get release, the fallout came pretty fast.
For background, here is a recap of our interview with the bishop when we made it clear we were not going to continue with the church. I was still the bishop's first councilor at the time, so I needed to be extra gentle. He's a good man and nobody wants to hurt the feelings of a good person.

Let me start by saying that my wife is pretty amazing. She doesn't admit how strong she is. When pressed by people, she bends kindly. But if you get up against her core, she is steel underneath.

Originally, the interview was scheduled because she wanted to be released from her calling (primary presidency, yes, while I was in the bishopric and, before that, elders quorum pres.). We have been working pretty hard for a long while now. She gave the sharing time on honesty recently and couldn't stomach some of the other topics and said she needs to be released too.
But the exec. sec. told me the bishop would really like to meet with both of us.

I didn't want an argument or dispute, we're really not confrontational people (obviously) but we talked about it as a couple briefly and we agreed this might be the chance for a "clean break".
Talk about gripping the bull by the horns though.

We waited for him to say what he wanted to first. I could see a lot of strain in his eyes and he was working on a smile. BTW, I'd already sent him my biggest issues via email so he wouldn't be "surprised" which is why I think he invited both of us.

After he asked my wife to say a prayer (she gave a nice spiritual thought in prayer style instead saying how grateful she is for our family, how marvelous a world and life we live and an amen to which I gave a strong amen).

I then started our side of all this by first saying that we aren't committing any sins, or anything else to keep us away from the church. I did this largely to make him feel at ease that I wasn't a snake in his midst during the time I served as his councilor. I also said that though to put aside the "You don't believe because of unworthiness and the spirit has left you" arguments.

I tried to sum it up in a single sentence that the history isn't what we were told, there are some really painful issues with it in fact and that the LDS gospel is designed in such a way that you can't take some of it and leave the rest. By their own design, they get you to feel good about one thing and say that the rest must therefore be true. But it goes both ways.
I said you can't have Joseph Smith be both the man the church describes and also have him sleeping with married women and young girls.
He replied that he had similar doubts and that he first wanted me to understand that if we dig deep enough into the past, everyone has mistakes, some big ones, including the prophets. He said even his own history we'd find things to be offended by.

I replied I highly doubted that me seeing the bishop fly off the handle or with road rage is anywhere on the level of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young's wives. I said it with a laugh.
He laughed along with it about the part of me mentioning his flying off the handle and then his laugh kind of died when he saw the sword my comment contained. I felt a little bad.
He said that he had to struggle with these issues too over the years before he gained a testimony of it. He said that he got a wonderful and powerful witness that he should serve a mission (while his family was inactive) to which I said I can appreciate that and I don't want to squash anyone's feelings about the gospel and their callings.

This part is what turned my head though... he mentioned that he served in a southern state and that he had a really hard time with the priesthood being witheld from people who are black and that he was serving in 1978. My ears perked for this because I couldn't see any way out of this one. He said it was very challenging (I'll bet) but that he figured if he had such a strong call from god to serve his mission, that he must be in charge and that this was part of his plan. He was relieved when the priesthood was extended to everyone.

I let him finish but I replied saying "But there were a hundred years before that. That must have been a very long century for a lot of people."

He said that people make mistakes and that he had to wrestle with polygamy too. He started into the explanation we all know, and said there were far more women (not really true) and that after the mobs killed primarily the men and avoided the women there were widows and orphans. He also said "We couldn't just give them vouchers for food and shelter like we can today." I said that Joseph Smith didn't marry widows though, he was involved with some other women that were already married, and I said this is a matter of historical fact, not some anti tract.

Once my wife saw that this was going to turn into a back and forth, she looked him right in the face and said, "I've read all the apologist literature and it doesn't add up and it feels terrible to me and I don't want to talk about it anymore."

She proceeded to then say that she has done this her entire life (30 years of it now) and she feels betrayed and lied to and it doesn't feel good anymore. She started to get emotional at this part, though strong in voice, no tears, just a passionate and powerful statement of fact.

He was quiet after that. In our modern world, who can look a woman in the face and tell them polygamy was all ok and just go with it? He obviously couldn't.

He paused and tried to keep smiling. For the record, the bishop is a good man, heart full of kindness and he works his butt off. He really does care about people.  He then said "Are you going to keep meeting with us?" I hesitated. My wife's lips were closed and her face said no. I replied with "We have no issues with the people of the ward, we don't want to be a burden on anyone and we would love to keep our friends. We understand this will be hard for many and we'll accept whatever."

My wife followed up though with "We're going to be out for the month of August regardless so that kind of takes the question away for the time-being."

He said how much he appreciated our hard service. We thanked him and I said he is a good man and I appreciated him having confidence in me and I've enjoyed it. He then said with a laugh in an attempt to break the tension "You know of course we won't give up on you and that we'll follow you the rest of your life." He seemed to immediately realize that was a poor choice of words and that he didn't intend it to sound that way.

One more thing about my wife, she is a knockout, just beautiful. But when you looked at her face in that moment, it was a mirror, expressionless, like an Aes Sedai for anyone that's read the Wheel of Time fantasy novels. He tried stumbled and said "...unless that will offend you." To her. She said she didn't expect that to be an issue (lol, total Aes Sedai there too). I said we'll allow it to continue "as long as it feels comfortable to us."

I decided to wrap it up, I said thanks for all the good times and asked him to say a prayer to end this (it's a guaranteed conversation stopper). He said a long prayer. There was some sermon in it but not too much. We shook hands and he said he hoped we'd still be friends to which I said of course.

We walked out. It was a gorgeous Sunday late Summer afternoon. The brightness blinded me as I stepped out. A good brother that is recently returned to the church said hello to me as we left and he was heading back into the dark chapel. My wife and I were a little dazed. We looked at each other a few times as we walked to the car.

I held her hand, we hugged each other side by side as we walked. "That was a long prayer," I said. We laughed and drove home.